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Post by bloomtruck42 on May 14, 2008 11:01:49 GMT -5
although neighbors complaining about the sirens is nothing new...
i saw on news 12 residents of the east farm fire district complaining about the new thunderbolt siren they put up 3 weeks ago. They took some measurements and said it registered at 95 db in a neighbors home (with all the windows shut) which can allegedly cause long term hearing damage.
damn that thing must be loud
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Post by suddenlyseemore on May 14, 2008 12:56:56 GMT -5
Weakest sound heard 0dB
Whisper Quiet Library 30dB
Normal conversation (3-5') 60-70dB
Telephone dial tone 80dB
City Traffic (inside car) 85dB
Train whistle at 500', Truck Traffic 90dB
Subway train at 200' 95dB
Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss 90 - 95dB
Power mower at 3' 107dB
Snowmobile, Motorcycle 100dB
Power saw at 3' 110dB
Sandblasting, Loud Rock Concert 115dB
Pain begins 125dB
Pneumatic riveter at 4' 125dB
Even short term exposure can cause permanent damage - Loudest recommended exposure WITH hearing protection 140dB
Jet engine at 100', Gun Blast 140dB
Death of hearing tissue 180dB
Loudest sound possible 194dB
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Post by Ex-Capt371 on May 15, 2008 7:15:51 GMT -5
Rob from LIFA needs to go change his pants....
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Post by Luke on May 15, 2008 11:14:32 GMT -5
You had to know it was going to happen eventually. What is sad is that these people know that they are moving next to a firehouse. Do they really expect it to be silent?
Its the same thing with assholes who move along the LIE and RR tracks. These roadways and tracks were put there before your house was (in most cases) and its not like you didnt know it was there when you moved in. Instead, these hacks cry and whine to local legislators and they spend the rest of the counties tax dollars to put up a sound barrier that costs billions of dollars. Then, these same people will bitch and moan that their taxes are too high. As for the people who complained about the trains horns being too loud, they are even bigger assholes. As I see it, i wouldn't move near train tracks if the house was free just b/c I know that the sound would be undesirable. To make themselves feel better and feel like they have power, they will complain and make everyone else conform to their likings and the LIRR will now have to spend more money to please these idiots. These same people who use the trains regularly will then complain when the fees for the LIRR increase.
Its a Catch-22 with these people and someone needs to put a foot down somewhere instead of giving too much power to people who dont need it. Sorry for the rant...lol I would keep those sirens alive. F the people!
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Post by Ex-Capt371 on May 15, 2008 11:54:30 GMT -5
well, let us be reasonable as well. A sound level that high creates a legitamate health risk. Does it need to be that loud? You would have to do an environmental impact study to determine the layout of the area that sire needs to cover. Chances are, that wasnt done. I have to side with the homeowners on this one.
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Post by grayrider on May 15, 2008 12:17:12 GMT -5
I love sirens. B/C it's not near MY house!
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Post by wqce207a on May 15, 2008 12:27:43 GMT -5
be careful what you wish for, go ahead and shut the siren off, the Q will just get wound up that much louder... So instead of initial activation and maybe re-activation for work, you'll have 4 or 5 Q's going in minute or two intervals as the rigs get out. Even if you shut the siren off, you're still going to deal with the rigs leaving. I can't stand ignorant people.
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Post by pfost262 on May 15, 2008 12:28:40 GMT -5
FYI. If it's not where the homeowners are, why have sirens?? Aren't they to alert volunteers to emergencies?? The siren on their HQ is not in a Residential neighborhood. I guess you don't know where our HQ is then...last time i checked it was in a residential neighborhood. |
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Post by Luke on May 15, 2008 12:39:29 GMT -5
well, let us be reasonable as well. A sound level that high creates a legitamate health risk. Does it need to be that loud? You would have to do an environmental impact study to determine the layout of the area that sire needs to cover. Chances are, that wasnt done. I have to side with the homeowners on this one. My comment was more of a general type comment, not very specific to East Farmingdale's situation. That thing is very loud, i will agree. As buffy as it is, perhaps they don't need such a monster of a siren. I'm not on the panel to determine that. But you hear the same ole story over and over and over again about people complaining about sirens. It's just a shame that the politics win and too many districts do not have balls to send people on their way. |
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Post by Ex-Capt371 on May 15, 2008 14:15:24 GMT -5
You are right Luke, but even my own department goes overboard. Here, we blast a 6 cycle for every rediculous automatic alarm that comes in...24/7. Its un-necessary. And i dont want anyone giving me that "it alerts the volunteers" line. Thats probie talk and you know it. Every Department on the Island has pagers. I am embarressed sitting in front of my firehouse at 3am waiting for the crew and the sirens just never seem to stop. There is no reason for it unless it is a true emergency. Working fires, yes. Heavy rescues, yes. Automatics at 3am, NO.
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Post by bloomtruck42 on May 15, 2008 15:35:17 GMT -5
also in the homeowners defense it said that the siren had been out of service since like 60's (or 70's)... i'm sure i'd get a little angry too if it never went off and then all of the sudden went off at that kind of volume. (not to mention i wonder how many people it sent running for bomb shelters)
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Post by Ex-Capt371 on May 15, 2008 16:24:55 GMT -5
Good point.
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Post by speedy1100 on May 15, 2008 16:45:07 GMT -5
maybe residents should open there mail from the local fd there not always looking for a donation..and the old effd siren stopped in the late 80's
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Post by suddenlyseemore on May 15, 2008 18:23:32 GMT -5
perhaps given that certain groups are out to lynch the VFDs we should learn to be more diplomatic and play nice with our neighbors.
no need to get additional people, especially if they became organized in civic associations or other community groups, all riled up against us too.
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Post by pfost262 on May 15, 2008 20:48:46 GMT -5
The residents were given letters notifying them that new sirens were going up, i'm not sure the whole content of the letter though. In Addition, they only go off 8am-8pm its not 24 hours.
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Post by nlfdexcapt on May 16, 2008 1:05:26 GMT -5
My department's Siren only goes off between 9 am and 9pm, it only goes off between 9pm and 9am for working 13's/24-working 13's. I think that's fair. And also the siren is good to have go off in case you run out of your house without your pager or go to the local store without your pager and you can hear the siren go off so you know that you have a call and respond to the firehouse.
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Post by nlfdexcapt on May 16, 2008 1:10:48 GMT -5
I also just found out the other day that we might be putting our siren back on at the corner of wellwood Ave and spieglehagen street soon. That's really gonna go over good with the neighbors, That thing was pretty loud when it was working years ago.
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Post by Ex-Capt371 on May 16, 2008 8:03:21 GMT -5
Suddenly has a good point as well. The VFD is no longer the third rail of politics. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to things like this. We (collectively) go out and do things without letting the people who pay for it know what is going on.
Now, EFFD may have sent out letters. And if they did, it is a step in the right direction. HOWEVER, how informative was it? Did it include dBa levels? Hours of operation? Etc?
Im not against warning systems, but sometimes we go too far with it.
I remember listening to sound clips of Mineola during a rescue call on LIFA.com. It sounded like we were being attacked.
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Post by jjklongisland on May 16, 2008 8:15:26 GMT -5
I work in Melville directly next to a Water Authority Pump Station and Melville has there siren mounted about 20' from our parking lot. Man that thing is loud. I remember my first day at my desk and heard it activate, I nearly spilled my coffee in my lap. Like anything else, people that live next to railroad tracks you get ued to it. Call Sirens have both positive and negative effects and we can sit down and come up with many reasons to have them and not to have them. My opinion is to use them in "True Emergencies". I always used to defend the call sirens by saying they warn the public when we are responding, but the fact is the public doesnt even pay attention to a fire truck riding there but with the Q on full blast, you really think they are gonna pay attention that first responders are en route to a call... I think the siren was a necessary and effective way of letting firefighters back in the day there was an alarm. Today with the advent of all this technology and cell phone text messages of alarms etc., I think they might not have a justifiable place in todays society. There are other things that we can be putting our money into more usefull things rather than paying for environmental impacts statements...
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Post by suddenlyseemore on May 16, 2008 8:18:46 GMT -5
Is there anything that can prove that having a siren is a benefit to the FD or the community? Like a research study? An NFPA standard?
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Post by pfost262 on May 16, 2008 10:30:51 GMT -5
Well, i know that when i'm home on break my pager is always on. I live out of district and barely hear the siren, so with the family we got like 4 pagers going off at once. However, in the department i'm in upstate my pager isn't always on, i turn it off when i'm in school and don't always remember to put it back on. I live in district and i know there have been numerous times where the sirens have gone off, even in the middle of the night and i would obviously know there was an alarm. I do believe they are affective.
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Post by grayrider on May 16, 2008 11:57:59 GMT -5
I think they have a benefit in the summertime. I don't have my pager w/ me when i am doing yard work, in the pool or outdoor stuff. I actually rely on the siren for that. But, i really don't see a need for it in the wintertime when i'm not doing stuff outside too much.
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Post by TRUCK1LT on May 16, 2008 18:34:45 GMT -5
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Post by jjklongisland on May 16, 2008 20:09:03 GMT -5
God thats loud... Definate hearing damage...
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Post by bfd732 on May 16, 2008 21:12:02 GMT -5
Neighbors, neighbors, are these the same neighbors that have the landscapers mowing and blowing at 0800 on Sunday, or whose kids love to listen to hip hop on their super amps with car jumping up and down as they drop their girlfriend off next door at 1AM, or are they the one's who have the sensitive car alarms that go off for 15 minutes at 3 AM becuas a cat farted next to it, maybe there the one's with the dogs they let out at 4 AM that bark until 11 AM, or the one's with Harley who come home when the bars close at 4AM - I don't know about you, but I certainly can't hear the sirens !
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Post by TRUCK1LT on May 16, 2008 21:21:26 GMT -5
Neighbors, neighbors, are these the same neighbors that have the landscapers mowing and blowing at 0800 on Sunday, or whose kids love to listen to hip hop on their super amps with car jumping up and down as they drop their girlfriend off next door at 1AM, or are they the one's who have the sensitive car alarms that go off for 15 minutes at 3 AM becuas a cat farted next to it, maybe there the one's with the dogs they let out at 4 AM that bark until 11 AM, or the one's with Harley who come home when the bars close at 4AM - I don't know about you, but I certainly can't hear the sirens ! AMEN !! |
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Post by chemical on May 17, 2008 8:17:12 GMT -5
Gotta chime in here from experience on the other side. (which gets easily confused mind you.)
Our STH10 died one winter, not fixable. Everybody said great, one less expense, shut the breaker, leave it in place and make a home for the birds.. Then our ISO inspection, I believe every two years, comes back. Besides the fact that they require more tarps and ground ladders that could cover a cape cod and make it look like a boy scout teepee project if all employed, they questioned the siren OOS. We said it was broken and they asked what was the alternate means of alearting members, we said paging, texting, phone, etc.. 2 sq. mi., small plots, you can hear someone fighting with their wife a block away with the windows open in the summer, no big deal. Nope, you loose points in the rating. So the siren was replaced, same model not souped up, even raised it up another ten feet on a platform (total 55 feet) so it didn't blow out the windows of the homes behind the firehouse. (ninety five feet from siren face to back wall of house directly behind HQ., 110 Db. rated on axis, or direct line from omnidirectional horns.) Had to include invoices and certificates to prove it was in service and a resolution of the borad that it would "sound for any report of a possible structure fire twenty four hours a day, other alarms at the discretion of the District." Hence the 0800 to 0800 only rule for other alarms. It really is pretty dumb, but you have to go with the flow, they control the costs and the rules down the line..
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Post by chemical on May 17, 2008 8:20:59 GMT -5
My bad, 0800 to 2000 rule...
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Post by OnADeuce on May 17, 2008 10:26:11 GMT -5
a cat farting - nice
i support the use of sirens still, even with the paging system. i don't always have my pager on me when i'm at home and so if my pager is upstairs and i'm in downstair with the tv or music on, i don't always hear the pager but sometimes i can hear the sirens. and like grayrider, if i'm doing something outside, i don't usually have my pager with me. Plus, there are certain dead spots on the edge of my district and so if you're getting some pizza or buying groceries, your pager won't go off
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Post by bloomtruck42 on May 18, 2008 0:45:57 GMT -5
Then our ISO inspection, I believe every two years, comes back. quote] i thought its been out since the 80's? |
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