fireground radios

[realfireman]

can anyone explain to me why there is not one designated fireground channel for all departments. I understand there are a few low band freq., however no body uses them. Why is there no continuity if I go to a neighboring department?

[newsnick175]

Unlike W'chester Co, where the county has several freqs for FG ops, most of LIs FDs have left the low band and set up there own radio systems. They set up FG channels that won't be interfered with by neighboring depts. Thats the reason they left the low band in the first place, interference. So it would take an edict from FRES to declare a common FG freq [on the UHF band where most everyone has gone] that at least all chiefs would have. The chiefs would coordinate with each other and command their own resources as needed.

[bloomtruck42]

I would imagine your dept has all your neighboring agencies programmed into your radios, if not thats something that needs to be looked at.

[realfireman]

This system makes no sense to me. Why we can't have one designated high band fireground for the entire county and then a few more just in case we need to switch? As for the portables we have switching to the neighboring departments; we do have them. The officers all have them. But what if they are not around? What if we go to and extremely large operation and the roof guy of the first due department notices something wrong on the roof and radios this information over his frequency? Do I have to wait until my chief hopefully hears this and sends the information to me? Now I know if something really bad is about to happen and the building has to be evacuated that we are going to sound the air horns. But don't you think if we all had the same radios we would get a few seconds notice before the air horns of what is going on? A few seconds in the fire service could mean life or death. So can someone please give me an intelligent reason as to why Nassau County does not have designated high band (that are in use) fireground channels for the entire county?

[CFD208]

I'm going to have to agree with realfireman here. You bring up some valid points. A UHF fireground freq(and spares) that everyone carried would be an excellent resource. And to avoid congestion, each dept would remain on their own freq with their command post rep monitoring both, better so with 2 radios. I suppose the ball would start rolling at the township chiefs meetings.

[newsnick175]

All very good idears, and if you guys in Nassau can hold out long enough to wait for the county 500Mhz system, it will include dispatch, ops and fire ground [simplex] talk groups for every department!

[bloomtruck42]

every portable should have your neighboring departments frequencies programmed in, if not, again thats something you should bring up at a dept meeting.

it makes no sense to me for only your officers to have portables with other depts in them.
if ur surrounding agencies have different bands well then thats a different story.

however i also run with a county who operates with common fireground frequencies and more often then not seperate operations work on seperate channels, especially at a large operation...other wise there would be way too much clutter on the radio.

cfd208, thats pretty much the exact system we have now. if mutual aided the responding agency would operate on their own channel and have the chief at the command post monitoring the others.

[XCAPT1]

The departments in my area that are on high band are lucky. Farmingville has offered one of their high band freq's to everyone as a mutual aid channel. It's only to be used at major incidents. BTRTF also will use it for an operations channel.

Stay Safe

[mike802]

cfd208 said:

I suppose the ball would start rolling at the township chiefs meetings.

They have had the conversations there, and still no one can get on the same page.

[volffemt]

Good ideas.

Problem 1.) Depts use low band, VHF, UHF and out east they're on the EH 800 system. Too many freqs out there.

Problem 2.) When a Dept rolls up on a working fire, whatever freq those guys are on (F/G, Tac, repeater) that's the freq they're going to stay on, you can't make them switch.

I'd like to see 3 to 5 countywide UHF tac fireground channels for M/A use. No repeater, just simplex. Now we go back to depts who don't use UHF. Could they buy some UHF portables for M/A, sure, could they use vehicle repeaters or patching feature, sure.

Now in a perfect world...

I'd like to see they entire county on the 800mhz system. PD/FD and EMS. They would need to expand the system for more users.

Keep the tone outs on 46.46, 155.280 or whatever you page your dept on. Put a few talkgroups in there, fire east, west whatever. Then all F/G comm's would be 800 simplex, ex. tac 1, tac 2, etc... Depts could still keep whatever system they wish for commication between themselves and their dispatch. But for M/A purposes everyone would have access to 800mhz.

(East Hamp Div has actually done this for themselves, they tone out all on UHF simulcasted system for entire 9th Div coverage, and they all talk to dispatch and F/G is on their 800mhz system. Now, if only the county could follow this!!)

[Ex-Capt371]

You should start by asking why there are several different sets of codes in Nassau. If you want continuity, thats where you should start.

[volffemt]

100% right. Nassau has alot of issues to deal with. Why any dept would deviate from the standard county signals/codes (like Hempstead) is beyond me.

Big issue in both counties, is that every dept is their own kingdom! The county doesn't really control SOP's and communications like other counties (Prince George Maryland).

It be nice to see every dept use similar guidelines, sop's communications, etc.

[Ex-Capt371]

Suffolk, before most went tho UHF Ops, had division freqs on low band. Also, F-3, which is a countywide MA band. Anyone who wants to standardize ops freqs on UHF/VHF/800 can do so by using the U-tac/U-call, V-tac/V-call, and I-Tac/I-Call channels made avaialable tby the federal govt. that discussion is found here: fireemsli.proboards26.com/index.cgi?board=radio&action=display&thread=1143012750

[realfireman]

It be nice to see every dept use similar guidelines, sop's communications, etc........

I agree with this. I think every department in Nassau should be on the same page. I think a lot of things should be similar. Like purchasing of apparatus. Why does every department purchase different brands. If all departments purchased, let's just say for arguments sake Pierce, then Nassau county would have the contract fro Pierce. We would all get a cheaper price because it we would be purchasing more than one. Also we would not have individual departments wasting money on items attached to the apparatus that individuals on the Truck Committee feel that department needs when in fact they don't need these items. Also we could have a county shops where these apparatus could go if they needed any work done. I know that a lot of departments have their own mechanics, however my department along with numerous others do not and we waste thousands of dollars every year sending our rigs out for simple work and even PM.... This is just a start to making Nassau County a little more organized not only with the spending but with firefighting procedures just like I know most people would like. I have been a member of two different departments over the past 15 years and have seen two different SOPs and two different spending procedures. I have seen two different ways of running operations and two different ways of communicating. I am not saying one is better than the other, they both have their own good attributes but things need to be changed. Getting back to the portable situation. Our neighboring department to the west is NYC. If an engine gets sent from Tottenville in Staten Island to the North Bronx all members of the engine can still communicate on their portables to the members in the Bronx. They have not had to change bands, they have not had to change to a new radio and they have not had to give different codes to the dispatcher just because they are on opposite sides of the city. Everything is similar. I just don't understand why Nassau can't be like this. It seems like a walk in the park.

[Ex-Capt371]

A) Every three months the entire County of Nassau would be out of service if the all bought Pierce.

B) Everyone is supposed to be on the same page, its called NIMS.

C) You are comparing apples to oranges when you bring up FDNY. Their equipment is bought from the same budget. My budget and yours are different because we have a different tax bill.

D) these problems dont just exists in nassau. They are everywhere in the volly system, and in some career systems as well.

E) I dont know what park you are walking in, but in suffolk, there are 109 fire departments. Each has their own set of chiefs, and opinions. And this is not something that hasnt been discussed before. It gets talked about on the front ramp of every firehouse, the problem is no one wants to give up their power.

[bloomtruck42]

i'll both agree and disagree with you capt..

... on the budget issue departments dont need a 1 million dollar engine, plus if everybody got together and said we will only order from one comapny and took bids from every company (pierce, eone, america la france etc) gaurenteed the prices would be cut so much they'd fit everybodys budget. imagine if you were pierce and you were being told name a price or you'll lose the entire county of nassau?

if a company knows their contract is on the line when our apparatus is out of service they'll work a million times harder to keep us happy.

but your definatly right about how its talked about by many, but will probably never happen. we also often forget about how much easier this is said then done. any idiot can post on a webpage how every aspect of the fire service could or should be better.

[CFD208]

bloomtruck42 said:

...on the budget issue departments don't need a 1 million dollar engine

but your defiantly right about how its talked about by many, but will probably never happen. we also often forget about how much easier this is said then done. any idiot can post on a webpage how every aspect of the fire service could or should be better.

I'm siding with Ned on this one. He's right about the cost of an engine. It seems like some departments are purchasing these extravagant trucks with all these bells and whistles(more things to break if you ask me). I mean really, why does your engine have to be 50ft long, 30ft high, super duper lights and have chrome everywhere. I'm exaggerating but you get my point. A truck needs to flow water or reach high places, hold some stuff, blink and make some noise. This isn't Pimp My Ride here...
But like Bloom said, easier said than done. It's a lot of work and can't be accomplished by one person. A committee yes, but not one person. I'm getting off topic here.

So how 'bout those fireground radios?

[TRUCK1LT]

Just a point on the FG radio's. The Town of Smithtown (Suffolk) has instituted 2 UHF simplex FG channels that are being programmed into the 5 Smithtown Depts. At this time I dont know if the 2 Depts that split Smithtown with another town (Commack & Hauppauge) are putting it into their radios yet. As far as I know they are not using them yet.
As for the next question "What are the freq's ?" I will have to get back to you all when I find them in my mess of papers.

Good Night and have a pleasent tommorow !

[Pride373]

If anyone wants a copy of documentation of the federal UHF interoperability channels, send me an email at [e-mail]

The UTAC channels are exactly what you need - 4 simplex UHF channels that can be used by ALL public safety entities on UHF for multi-departmental use. They should be programmed in every UHF radio on Long Island.