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Post by bfd732 on May 7, 2007 9:26:20 GMT -5
Who takes photos and where are they posted? I don't mean Buff with his photophone, who are the guys with the big lenses at all the scenes? I know some make it to 1st reponder, firenews, etc... but where else can they be seen? Just curious cause I see a lot more photogs then I do pix.
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Post by ESU2422 on May 7, 2007 9:32:58 GMT -5
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Post by wqce207a on May 7, 2007 15:01:03 GMT -5
Billy Buff takes some awesome photos. The guy from E. Northport takes some great photos. Out in bedrock we have Sonny Turner, I don't think he has a website though.
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Post by Eng3Capt on May 8, 2007 7:28:41 GMT -5
A quick note to all of the Fire/EMS Photographers. I would assume any and all pictures you take, post, share and e-mail are legal documents. That can be used to help or hurt anyone of us, either internally or if used or found by outsiders. Please keep that in mind when you are taking and sharing these pics. And more importantly stay safe.
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Post by Eng3Capt on May 8, 2007 7:29:03 GMT -5
A quick note to all of the Fire/EMS Photographers. I would assume any and all pictures you take, post, share and e-mail are legal documents. That can be used to help or hurt anyone of us, either internally or if used or found by outsiders. Please keep that in mind when you are taking and sharing these pics. And more importantly stay safe.
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Post by bfd732 on May 8, 2007 9:53:31 GMT -5
That's a great point, seems like it's strictly up to the guys with the cameras to do the right thing. I don't see policies being created or enforced until someone gets sued.
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Post by Eng3Capt on May 8, 2007 13:01:29 GMT -5
Or jammed up. Not saying the photo guys are to blame, we should not allow some of these actions to go down in the first place. But documenting it can prove to be detrimental to someone or orginization. Some people go past trying to use them for their intended purpose and are forced to bring it to the next level.
I dont want to see the photo guys having their access restricted or having their shoes broken. just a little more caution should be exercised by all involved
Stay Safe
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Post by bfd732 on May 8, 2007 13:38:51 GMT -5
Or jammed up. Not saying the photo guys are to blame, we should not allow some of these actions to go down in the first place. But documenting it can prove to be detrimental to someone or orginization. Some people go past trying to use them for their intended purpose and are forced to bring it to the next level. I dont want to see the photo guys having their access restricted or having their shoes broken. just a little more caution should be exercised by all involved Stay Safe I agree it's not the photogs fault, but when you find a way to make sure all responders at a scene do everything they're supposed to please let me know. Until then there will be ample opportunity to grab shots of people in compromising positions. In the interim the only way to limit that exposure is through good judgement on the part of the photog. And of course that assumes all the guys taking pix are sympathetic to our cause.
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Post by Eng3Capt on May 8, 2007 13:51:25 GMT -5
Or common sense could prevail, but hey I think I have a shot at the Mega Millions.
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Post by enfdphoto on May 8, 2007 15:09:29 GMT -5
As one of those "photo guys" I have a few things to add. 1) As far as getting jammed up by a photographer, in this day and age there are so many digital cameras around that everyone can afford. Many fd photographers do have common sense and as far as im concerned if they noticed something wrong would never post it or publish it. And exactly as BFD said its not necessarily us photo guys you have to watch out for but the kid down the street who takes a picture and puts it up on his website without knowing. 2) I agree with all of you. I would never post anything that would be compromising to anyone.
Ah now that parts over Many of the pictures that I take are sent in to Fire News but I dont have a personal website with all that stuff on it.
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Post by Dispatch on May 8, 2007 15:22:37 GMT -5
Unfortunately, we have ALOT of kids with cameras showing up these days at fires and MVA's who have no official business being there as they are not bonefied news media types. Many of them disregard any fire lines set-up and mouth off to chiefs, line officers and fire-police when you ask them to step back behind the lines!
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Post by suddenlyseemore on May 8, 2007 18:33:56 GMT -5
thats what the guys with guns and handcuffs are for...
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Post by Eng3Capt on May 9, 2007 7:05:16 GMT -5
Once again, I am in no way picking on the "Photo Guys". I believe there are even a few associations out there for them, if this is the case, maybe they can come up with some kind of universal ID system for them. Anybody else without out the official "Photo Guy" ID. We chase away, so we dont have this issue.
Now that everyone thinks I dislike the "Photo Guys".
Stay Safe
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Post by bfd732 on May 9, 2007 9:31:16 GMT -5
I think everyone understands your point. The fact is we're not all as serious about keeping unautorized folks away from scenes or limiting our own members from taking pix. I think the professionals know what they're doing. But watch out if you have a large incident and the guys with press credentials show up, they could be from NEWSDAY. Or god forbid you have a member with little common sense, a cell camera and a myspace account (none in my dept. yeah right, how about yours??).
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Post by ESU2422 on May 9, 2007 12:52:55 GMT -5
Once again, I am in no way picking on the "Photo Guys". I believe there are even a few associations out there for them, if this is the case, maybe they can come up with some kind of universal ID system for them. Anybody else without out the official "Photo Guy" ID. We chase away, so we dont have this issue. Now that everyone thinks I dislike the "Photo Guys". Stay Safe There already is a universal ID, it's called a "Working Press Pass" I personally have no problem with anyone taking pictures at a scene, as long as they're not getting in the way. I am just curious about how you'd limit access to any of them? Who controls the perimeter, FD or PD ? If FD is trying to control the perimeter what legal authority allows you to prevent anyone from passing you? I ask this because PO's are allowed by law to stop, detain, ID people, control scenes etc. And there are provisions that allow people with "Press Passes" past the crowd lines. Besdies, it is not against the law to photograph , some people have more common sense than others and know which shots to take, which not to take. Another point to ponder...............I don't have to be up on the action to get a good picture, with the right lens I can be down the street, get a picture and nobody would ever know I was there.
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Post by Eng3Capt on May 9, 2007 13:04:39 GMT -5
You have an excellent point. I guess i will just have to rely on the members in my department utilizing common sense (this could be another loooong term). Good Points raised, just going to be one of those things we are going to have to deal with.
Stay Safe
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Post by XCAPT1 on May 9, 2007 13:16:08 GMT -5
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Post by bfd732 on May 9, 2007 13:43:00 GMT -5
Actually, I think there is a precedent for allowing plain old firefighters similar authority to fire police, who have some authority at incidents to direct traffic and limit access. See link below forums.firehouse.com/archive/index.php/t-73122.html And absent that authority a real leaky nozzle might work :{ )
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Post by LIFireEMS on May 9, 2007 13:50:01 GMT -5
When directing traffic, and cars get too close, i hold a road flare about 2 feet from my body. I think you get the picture.
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Post by ESU2422 on May 9, 2007 14:31:32 GMT -5
Bottom line is, if you don't want to have your picture taken doing something foolish..........then don't do anything foolish.
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Post by bfd732 on May 9, 2007 14:45:53 GMT -5
Bottom line is, if you don't want to have your picture taken doing something foolish..........then don't do anything foolish. I don't disagree, but mistakes will always be made. All I am saying in today's world where people are so law suit happy, I am surprised agencies don't do more to limit potential problems by restricting pix more stringently.
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Post by ESU2422 on May 9, 2007 15:14:21 GMT -5
You might be able to restrict the pictures taken by your own members or photo unit but you cannot stop John Q. Public from taking pictures as long as you're operating in public. As I said, don't do anything foolish and you can't be in a picture doing something foolish. Can anyone remember a guy named Rodney King? A private citizen videotaped LAPD cops striking him and using a Taser on him, all of them lost their jobs, 2 of them went to federal prison. They were videotaped from the balcony of a hotel on the other side of the street. With this lens I can take your picture from the next street, so restricting access doesn't work either. And let's not forget how many surveilance cameras there are out there. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. If you're doing what your supposed to be doing no one can say otherwise.
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Post by bfd732 on May 9, 2007 19:26:14 GMT -5
Theres a diffrence between intentionally doing something wrong and making an operational mistake. Problem is a picture doesn't tell the story it's just a slice of time frozen for anyone to interpret later. None of us regardless how good we are at what we do, can say that we have not or will not make mistakes. We have to hope that when that happens there is no one there with a camera and a grudge. So the responsible thing for an ageny to do is to limit the chances for that anyway they can. They cannot insure that the neighbors haven't invested hunderds of dollars in photo equipment, but they can put procedures in place to stop their own members from taking pix and they can secure a wide scene with tape that will keep all but the most aggressive guys away from the scene.
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Post by wqce207a on May 10, 2007 15:09:24 GMT -5
It cracks me up that your depts have enough manpower to specifically stop people from taking pictures. If you have a problem w/ someone let the cops or oldtimers handle it. If kids mouth off at you and you're not busy, give em a little motorola or halligan shampoo.
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Post by bfd732 on May 11, 2007 11:31:11 GMT -5
Wow how this thread got off track. It started by me asking where people post their pix because I see no less than 2-3 cameras at any call that is more than a fender bender or burnt toast these days (and that doesn't count Buffy with his cell cam). Then people started talking about the possible liability of those pix and the responsibility the photogs should use. Then free press advocates said you better do everything right or you'll be caught. Now folks are suggesting we have too many people if we even have time to worry about this at a scene. To each their own. 1) if you know of good pix sites please let me know 2) I like photographers I really do 3) I'm not going to send your pix to newsday or the DA 4) I make mistakes - alot of them, obvious from this thread alone 5) I never said we have alot of extra members, but that doesn't mean we couldn't have a policy that would limit our own members from taking and sharing pix or allowing anyone with a camera close enough to the scene. and 6) with the Newsday hunt on and legislation like HIPPA I predict it's only a matter of time until members and agencies get in real trouble for some of the pictures they post on the net.
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Post by wqce207a on May 11, 2007 15:15:15 GMT -5
Wow how this thread got off track. It started by me asking where people post their pix because I see no less than 2-3 cameras at any call that is more than a fender bender or burnt toast these days (and that doesn't count Buffy with his cell cam). Then people started talking about the possible liability of those pix and the responsibility the photogs should use. Then free press advocates said you better do everything right or you'll be caught. Now folks are suggesting we have too many people if we even have time to worry about this at a scene. To each their own. 1) if you know of good pix sites please let me know 2) I like photographers I really do 3) I'm not going to send your pix to newsday or the DA 4) I make mistakes - alot of them, obvious from this thread alone 5) I never said we have alot of extra members, but that doesn't mean we couldn't have a policy that would limit our own members from taking and sharing pix or allowing anyone with a camera close enough to the scene. and 6) with the Newsday hunt on and legislation like HIPPA I predict it's only a matter of time until members and agencies get in real trouble for some of the pictures they post on the net. www.tobfw.com/www.1strespondernews.com
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Post by ieatsmoke on May 11, 2007 18:53:22 GMT -5
FWIW, many photographers who do make this a living watermark their pics. Others, Like my pal Mr. Martinelli, have websites that refuse to let you copy it.
And some that I've talked to, as much as they prefer it not be done, are sometimes satisfied by just something simple as giving credit to them.
As some Brothers posted, selling them as your own, or taking credit for them, is a legal matter.
{And a real ****bag move. JMO}
Be safe, be well.
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Post by wqce207a on May 15, 2007 17:28:14 GMT -5
FWIW, many photographers who do make this a living watermark their pics. Others, Like my pal Mr. Martinelli, have websites that refuse to let you copy it. And some that I've talked to, as much as they prefer it not be done, are sometimes satisfied by just something simple as giving credit to them. As some Brothers posted, selling them as your own, or taking credit for them, is a legal matter. {And a real ****bag move. JMO}Be safe, be well. Thank god you can enjoy and look at Billy Buff's pictures and he doesn't do this like other anal photographers: *EDITED DUE TO RIVERHEAD GRAMMAR EDUMUCATION*
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Post by Billy Buff on May 15, 2007 17:39:26 GMT -5
For a second there, I was a little worried lol. Thanx for the support!!!
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Post by enfdphoto on May 15, 2007 19:16:03 GMT -5
i was never anal like that until someone did steal one of my photos enter it into a contest and won a large sum of money. So don't think it doesn't happen
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