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Post by Firebird40622 on Mar 3, 2006 2:49:16 GMT -5
Hey all... I've been mulling over this idea for a good long time now and every so often I think about it more often than not... Ive realized that many different departments have different standards on citation issues and many have different citations all together... I was wondering what everyone thought of a county-wide standardization of awards and service ribbons? We could have service bars on our uniforms that are actual cloth ones (such as those of the Armed Forces). After all the FD is a semi-military themed organization. My girlfriend attends the Naval Academy and her "chest candy" or so she calls is looks very sharp and uniform and was another thing that got me thinking. Also I think it would be great to have ribbons that designate certain qualifications at a county level. Maybe a Nassau County Fire Commission Ribbon for all. And Maybe one designating their Battalion. Perhaps a ribbon for Firefighter I and II, EMT, AMT, Paramedic, Extrication Expert, Haz-Mat, Officer, etc. Basically qualifications recieved through the Academies. Also unit and department citations could be incorporated. Maybe even 5, 10, 15, etc. years of active service. As for decorations given from within a dept. they would obviously still be issued and perhaps worn along with the others... Its just an idea I thought I'd ask about to see what the general thought would be. I think it would be great, atleast a way to more unify all the county departments. Keep Safe. - Anthony  |
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Post by rescapt18 on Mar 20, 2006 2:57:02 GMT -5
If citations are earned in one dept are they ever allowed to be worn in other depts when one transfers?
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Post by FireRunt on Mar 20, 2006 11:57:58 GMT -5
a batallion ribbon? a 5 year service ribbon? a 10 year service ribbon? a firefighter1 ribbon?.....everyone would walk on a slant.....thats a lot of fruit salad.....unless you sew them on instead of having pins....
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Post by Firebird40622 on Mar 20, 2006 19:04:24 GMT -5
Thats my point. Have one standard and not an arm full of pins in one department or something of that matter. Something that could be recognized by everyone around the county. and sure, why wouldnt it be tranferable? It would be a county-wide system anyway.
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Post by rescapt18 on Mar 21, 2006 2:15:47 GMT -5
I mean, currently...does anyone have any experience between departments? I am in two depts (FD and a VAC). I never broached the subject, but I figure I could not wear earned vac bars on the FD uniform. Not that i'm in any rush to. It just seems like a point that I would surely catch some hell on. As far as the vac uniform goes, near anything is fair game. One guy wears his only military rank insignia on his uniform, which violates military practice, but thats another issue....
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KYE994
Chauffer
Ex-Captain
Posts: 87
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Post by KYE994 on Mar 21, 2006 8:11:09 GMT -5
I mean, currently...does anyone have any experience between departments? I am in two depts (FD and a VAC). I never broached the subject, but I figure I could not wear earned vac bars on the FD uniform. .. Yup. I've been in a few different volunteer organizations in the last 16 years and I can say this pretty authoritivly...the answer will be no and don't even try. You can't even get departments in the same battalion to honor transfers training records or Ex-Captain's status, etc...you think they are going to acknowledge each others "buff bars?!?" This is yet another area that pisses me off and makes me wonder why I still put up with the vollie BS. My last department "owed" me 2 citations when I left (the installation dinner was 2 months away from when I resigned). I asked them to send them to me so I could put them in a small shadowbox along with some of my other momentos. They refused to forward them to me because they were "Department" medals, not County and I was "no longer a member" (nice treatment for an Ex-Captain that lived, breathed and sacrificed for them for 10 years!!). I have not received my dress uniform from my new department yet; however I have one COUNTY issued medal & I fully intend on wearing it. |
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KYE994
Chauffer
Ex-Captain
Posts: 87
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Post by KYE994 on Mar 21, 2006 8:12:46 GMT -5
a batallion ribbon? a 5 year service ribbon? a 10 year service ribbon? a firefighter1 ribbon?.....everyone would walk on a slant.....thats a lot of fruit salad.....unless you sew them on instead of having pins.... I agree. There's no reason for ANY "certification" ribbons or anything else. Meritorious acts and honors are fine. |
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KYE994
Chauffer
Ex-Captain
Posts: 87
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Post by KYE994 on Mar 21, 2006 8:14:22 GMT -5
 Thats my point. Have one standard and not an arm full of pins in one department or something of that matter. Something that could be recognized by everyone around the county. and sure, why wouldnt it be tranferable? It would be a county-wide system anyway. I think this is a good thread and an excellent idea. Unfortunatly there is no mechanism for change and no individual department is going to give up "their" way of doing things. sad BTW.... My current employer actually has "on paper" a procedure for wearing past medals issued from previous departments, however since it was put on the books in 1976, I've yet to find one person that had their request to wear their previous medals approved.
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Post by Firebird40622 on Mar 21, 2006 12:32:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the replys. It's also nice to see that no one (yet) has voted against the idea...however...
"Buff Bars"? Why does everyone think that anything a firefighter has to show for him or herself is just a way to show off?
Maybe it would be nice to see someone from across the other side of the county and say "oh wow, he/she is AMT certificed, has a FF II certification, an ems award and 25 years on the job." etc.
Again, just an idea. Hell, it might even derive a little more respect for those who've earned it. When it comes down to it, we're all under one County Fire Commission. If the entire United States military can handle it, why not one county in one state out of the entire country?
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Post by flyer0509 on Mar 21, 2006 15:01:26 GMT -5
One guy in my company wears his citation from his old department, and no one gives him trouble over it. Are your acts of valor somehow void if you move and transfer to another department? If a guy risks his ass to make a grab and gets a medal for it, I'm not going to tell him to take it off because it happened somewhere else.
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Post by CFD208 on Mar 21, 2006 15:20:06 GMT -5
Well put
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Post by rescapt18 on Mar 21, 2006 18:20:01 GMT -5
As a side note, I see some depts (I think O-Side and Freeport) use "FDNY" style medals. How are these obtained? The only reason that I ask is, I was once priveleged enough to be brought to the FDNY quartermaster @ Ft. Totten, and I saw an FDNY medal poster with every medal and its description on it. I really want to get a copy of that poster.
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Post by ofdndfd493 on Mar 21, 2006 20:31:36 GMT -5
Does anyone out there think that their department or another department gives out medals to indiscriminately? I have seen some guys who have only been in a year or two with a chest full of citations and some of the 30 year plus guys who have alot of experience have nothing to show for it. To me, this doesn't make much sense. What kind of standards does each department have for awarding citations?
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Post by PWFD1115 on Mar 21, 2006 23:28:00 GMT -5
Does anyone out there think that their department or another department gives out medals to indiscriminately? I have seen some guys who have only been in a year or two with a chest full of citations and some of the 30 year plus guys who have alot of experience have nothing to show for it. To me, this doesn't make much sense. What kind of standards does each department have for awarding citations? You have to be in it to win it, or be in the right place at the right time. Newer members for the most part are very active and go to everything. Some of the senior members push reset, roll over and go back to bed. New guys will get out of bed at 3am to go to that automatic alarm, and when they pull up and its a 10 they might be the ones making a grab. How ever it would be nice if the county did standardize. |
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Post by ladder47 on Mar 22, 2006 0:50:41 GMT -5
Does anyone out there think that their department or another department gives out medals to indiscriminately? I have seen some guys who have only been in a year or two with a chest full of citations and some of the 30 year plus guys who have alot of experience have nothing to show for it. To me, this doesn't make much sense. What kind of standards does each department have for awarding citations? My Dept. is a very busy one with many Fires during the year, and many members involved in rescues over the years. BUT they did not start to issue uniform bars on a Dept. level untill the mid 90's. And did not send write ups to Nassau County till the late 80's early 90's. A formal Board of merit committee with class 1,2 and 3's started in the late 80's prior to that a Fireman of the year award or a Schaffer Beer Fireman of the year was awarded (Thats going way back for the older guys here) usually going to one person. When this all started they went back only a few years when they did start to issue....so what has happened is that the guys who were involved in rescues prior to say 1985 were never issued a bar. There never was a push to go back in the records and it just stayed that way. So in this case alot of the older members who should have some bars dont and alot of the younger guys do. This may be the case in some Dept.s.....when I look back at old photos from parades from all over the island....you almost never see uniform bars........here is a question to throw out to the Brothers here...what year did your Dept. start to issue uniform bars? What year did the Nassau Fire Commision start to issue award bars??? Early 80's I think? This is the main reason for many of the older members not wearing bars...also to PWFD1115 alot of the "senior" guys who are "resetting" their pages now, were the ones getting up years ago and riding the back step in Jan. at 3am.......that 36 year member was once a probie to.....and you would be wise not to forget that. |
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Post by mxboardin09 on Mar 22, 2006 1:25:07 GMT -5
While some senior members may reset and rollover, there are plenty of probies and younger guys that do the same thing...I'm a fairly new guy, not a probie anymore but still only 3 years in, and usually at night calls in my company the truck rolls with 2, sometimes 3 Ex-chiefs, a 30+year member, our current lieutenant but some of the guys who are newer than me don't show up...so you get senior guys resetting as well as younger guys.
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Post by rescapt18 on Mar 22, 2006 9:24:21 GMT -5
Alot of the new guys i see with a full "rack" up over their shoulder have alot of certification style bars emt, hazmat , firefighter (arent we all?) I once even saw ACLS, for what it's worth.
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Post by mfddispatcher30 on Mar 22, 2006 11:49:17 GMT -5
RESQCAPT18...That poster of medals is for sale and you can order it through fire apparatus journal...I didnt catch how much it was but it was an advertisement on the back page....
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Post by Firebird40622 on Mar 22, 2006 13:53:46 GMT -5
Alot of the new guys i see with a full "rack" up over their shoulder have alot of certification style bars emt, hazmat , firefighter (arent we all?) I once even saw ACLS, for what it's worth. Where'd you see that??? |
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Post by PWFD1115 on Mar 22, 2006 18:18:29 GMT -5
ladder47........ I have been a member for 10 years and the captain of the truck company for 15 months I never said anything bad about the senior members. I look up to my senior members as a good sorce of advice and for their knowledge. When im a 30 year member working to support a family im not going to be running out the door for every call either.
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Post by fow on Apr 20, 2006 10:04:34 GMT -5
Nassau County has a protocol for "County" issued medals for actions. The Fire Commission reviews the application for merit and awards based on level of danger the member was put in in order to warrant the medal.
I for one see WAY too many clowns with their Class A's on and look like Christmas trees with all of their what I call "I need attention" medals. EMT, AEMT, EMTCC, HAZMAT SPEC., TOB medals, County Medals, and so on. I know many fellows that have 20 plus years of service and have done outstanding jobs at fires and their attitude is, "It is my job." I also know two specific losers in my Dept. that get hit with the Kryptonite field once they are within 10 feet of a burning building. Once the fire is knocked down they are right in there getting dirty and the first assholes on line to get in on a Unit Citation if applicable.
In my sour opinion I would love to see the county be the only ones eligible to issue medals and a true standard set. The Dept. Issued medals are "tainted" with politics and good ol' boys club marks.
And for the record, I have 20 years and the medals I have been awarded continue to sit in my dresser. I wear the American Fag and a memorial bar for my dead friends.
If YOU are a Medal WHORE ask yourself why you are there?
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KYE994
Chauffer
Ex-Captain
Posts: 87
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Post by KYE994 on Apr 20, 2006 15:16:35 GMT -5
Nassau County has a protocol for "County" issued medals for actions. The Fire Commission reviews the application for merit and awards based on level of danger the member was put in in order to warrant the medal. In my sour opinion I would love to see the county be the only ones eligible to issue medals and a true standard set. The Dept. Issued medals are "tainted" with politics and good ol' boys club marks. Following your rational, the COUNTY medals are just as tainted as the DEPARTMENT medals in that "your departments" Chief's office has to send in the write up to the county to begin with, so that wouldn't solve the problem. |
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Post by squad5 on Apr 21, 2006 8:01:12 GMT -5
I agree with fow, but don't kid yourself those county awards are political also maybe not as much as some departments but political as well.
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Post by fow on Apr 21, 2006 10:34:22 GMT -5
There will always be a political agenda regardless of who the administrator is. My point was that many firefighters are issued home grown medals. My point in going to an outside authority would be to make it all go through one system. Have a 12 person board from different departments sanctioned through the Fire Commission.
Again, I will reiterate that I am one for peer appreciation over medals. When the brothers come up to you and say, "Good Job Bro' ". That should be enough for anyones ego to be fulfilled. Unfortunately there are too many "heroes" out there looking for the mental blow job as well.
Stay Safe
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