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Post by bfd732 on Sept 10, 2007 13:19:28 GMT -5
Hey found a pic on closecalls showing PD doing extrication w/o any special PPE and it made me think. Is there any concern for wearing a Glock while doing extriaction work? I'm honestly not trying to stir $#!T I'm just not familiar with how trigger safeties etc. work and wondering if an accidental discharge is possible?
I know I've been hung up on car parts many times while working.
Is this a concern or no big deal?
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Post by wqce207a on Sept 10, 2007 14:35:40 GMT -5
i saw that pic on billy's site also and thought the same. PD sidearms don't have safety's on them like civilian guns. I know a couple of city guys that have taken a round in the a$$ when they crouched down to take a dump. The ES trucks do have gun lockers but I doub't any cop would take the time to secure his weapon when shits hitting the fan.
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Post by ESU2422 on Sept 10, 2007 15:01:16 GMT -5
In Nassau the issued sidearm is a Sig Sauer , double action only 9MM. Double action means the gun can't be "cocked" and to fire it you need 12-14 lbs of pressure on the trigger. The gun has a retention strap that covers the hammer of the weapon further preventing it from accidentaly discharging. Most of us in Nassau have a large leather flap that covers the entire grip of the gun as well, the only part of my weapon you see is the butt end of the handle with the magazine. It's not going off unless I remove it from the holster and squeeze the trigger.
I am fairly certain that the NYPD uses the same holster as we do, I work with a few former city ESU guys as well and have never heard of an instance where any of them were struck while doing an extrication. If you have actual info on that please PM me, I'd like to know because that would indicate a flaw in the equipment or our training and as a matter of safety it should be addressed.
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Post by XCAPT1 on Sept 11, 2007 6:35:45 GMT -5
ESU2422
Not $hit stirring but I have a question or two. How does ESU get away with not wearing PPE during extraction? You have to admit it is strange that FF's have to be in full PPE and ESU just needs a pair of work gloves. Are there any regulations PD's must follow like our NFPA?
Stay Safe
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Post by ESU2422 on Sept 11, 2007 8:45:55 GMT -5
That's a valid question.
Where is it written that you need turnout gear for extrications?
Some of the guys I work with prefer long sleeve shirts over the short sleeve but we all use gloves and eye protection.
In 12 years of doing this with the PD and a few years before that with my FD I haven't seen anyone hurt yet. At work I think we see more guys getting poison ivy from parkway jobs than anything else.
If it's written somewhere that turnout gear is a requirement please let me know.
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Post by XCAPT1 on Sept 11, 2007 9:48:09 GMT -5
I know NFPA 1006 covers the Standard for Rescue Technician Professional Qualifications, which covers vehicle and machinery extraction. I don't know if it covers PPE for it though.
Also the NFPA 1670 is the Standard on Operations and Training for Technical Search and Rescue Incidents. Do you have to meet a standard like this? Also does your equipment have to meet the same standards covered in NFPA 1983? I've worked with SCESU a couple of times and this question made me wonder if we all have to follow the same or equal standards.
Stay Safe
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Post by bfd732 on Sept 12, 2007 11:15:37 GMT -5
ESU2422 thanks for the clarification on the siedarms, I assumed it was a reasonable risk or you wouldn't work with them on. I'm not familiar with the NFPA guidelines for extrication (don't have the time, interest or access) but know that in reality safety is being stressed more and more on the FF side. Simple things like wearing seatbelts, donning SCBA for all calls, etc... to limit risks wherever possible are the big concern. I guess the idea is FF have the bunker gear so they should wear it, you guys don't so it's not an option.
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Post by bfd732 on Sept 12, 2007 17:37:03 GMT -5
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cfd446
Pack Qualified
Posts: 26 
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Post by cfd446 on Sept 14, 2007 8:08:47 GMT -5
NFPA 1006 Chapter 1 Administration
1.1 Scope. This standard establishes the minimum job performance requirements necessary for fire service and other emergency response personnel who perform technical rescue operations.
Chapter 8 Vehicle & Machinery Rescue
Sections 8.1.2, 8.1.4, 8.1.5, and 8.1.7-8.1.10 specifically mention wearing personnel protective equipment.
Not trying to stir anything up, but the standard specifically does not limit itself to only the fire service.
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Post by XCAPT1 on Sept 14, 2007 9:42:50 GMT -5
CFD446
Thanks for the sections. I don't have an NFPA disk, and all I could find on line were summaries of each section. It still leaves grey areas in my mind.
Like how can it include all other emergency response personnel who perform technical rescue operations, when the NFPA guidelines are written for the fire service? Why would PD's even look in the NFPA guidelines?
Stay Safe
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Post by bloomtruck42 on Sept 14, 2007 12:53:38 GMT -5
i don't think they would-- not to mention they are only a guideline that is adopted by most agencies
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Post by TRUCK1LT on Sept 14, 2007 17:30:18 GMT -5
Turnout gear is not required, BUT, protective gear is. I believe you only need a nomex extrication jumpsuit, gloves, eye protection and a hood and/or helmet.    Here is the link to the above picture's website that tells you about the suit. www.fire-rescueoutfitters.com/clothing/ext_gear.htm |
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