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Post by cw1ny3478 on Feb 5, 2007 9:14:26 GMT -5
I am hearing alot about when NCPD goes to this new system all radio communication will be full encrypted. which means even with a digital scanner we are out of luck when it comes to monitoring primary dispatch. the days of monitoring the PCT's will be brought to a end!!!!!!!!!! anyone hear the same?
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Post by Ex-Capt371 on Feb 5, 2007 12:12:39 GMT -5
Im sure there will be a scanner out thwere with encryption capabilities, if there isnt one already.
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Post by wqce207a on Feb 5, 2007 12:34:34 GMT -5
How do you think Hezbollah(sp?) got the upper hand on the Isrealis last year? They monitored all their "encrypted" communications and knew their every move. I'm sure the technology is out there to monitor anyway.
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Post by w2lie on Feb 5, 2007 17:51:17 GMT -5
I for one, will believe it when I see it (or hear it for that matter)
NCPD should be moving over to a MA/Com TRS. The same system that has been giving the state of PA a headache for years now..
Beside, the towns need to allow Nassau to build out the system first.
This isn't going to happen overnight. And who knows if its even going to be encrypted. As of now, no scanner will track a MA/Com system.
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Post by TRUCK1LT on Feb 6, 2007 10:30:43 GMT -5
As of now, no scanner will track a MA/Com system. The Florida Highway patrol is going to a statewide system of the same type. The reason it can not be tracked by a scanner is that the trunking control channel is encrypted. As far as monitoring an encrypted channel on any system is not far fetched just out of reach for us laymen. I'm sure the Gov't has the means to go through the BILLIONS of different combinations of code in a matter of minutes. Thats why the PD's old secure-net system and even the new astro systems that narcotics, occb, etc.. use are all keyloaded with a new key everyday or every other day. To keep the codes rolling. Secret Service is the same. They actually talk more in the clear (astro) than coded. From a PD point of view I guess it's a good idea to keep the perps on their toes and eliminate their scanners. But it sucks for the PD buffs and press out there. I'm sure someone will come up with the question "What if they loose a radio ?" Easy.... The radios all have a couple of features programmed into them. 1. Over-the-air re-keying. The dispatcher can change the encryption key with a few key strokes in all the radios. 2. If that fails there is always old reliable "Radio Disable" button that turns the radio into a paperweight for the normal run of the mill skell perp. Thank you and have a pleasant tomorrow.
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Post by Gargamel37 on Feb 7, 2007 7:53:59 GMT -5
As far as waiting for a scanner to come up that will pick up encrypted systems, I wouldn't hold your breath. It's prob not gonna happen, if it ever did - they would just develop another radio system that people can't monitor.
Yes, Florida Highway Patrol is on SLERS (State Law Enforcement Radio System) Most all law agencies in Florida are on it now.
In my opinion, I think all public safety freqs (especially law enforcement) should be secure, where nobody can monitor. I'm all for listening to scanners, I do it myself - but this is my opinion. There is no real reason (except for buffing) that people need to hear law enforcement etc.
My agency uses a digital encrypted VHF radio system. As said before, we use OTAR (Over The Air Re-keying) to load the encryption code. It changes frequently and immediately if a radio is lost/stolen. We can knock stolen/lost radios off the system if we had to also. Even though we use this type of secure system, we still have code names for everything and we dont say too much (it's not that interesting)
If Nassau hs the money to install and maintain this type of secure system, I think they should. It sucks for us - but it's good for them.
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Post by newsnick175 on Feb 7, 2007 23:54:28 GMT -5
WHAT CRAP! The police are our public servants. We, the public, have a right to know the day to day workings of our police. The air ways are after all owned by the people. There is no reason for any police agency to encrypt their day to day comms, because they are professionals and know how to communicate out in the open with out reveling sensitive information. If some misdeed is reveled by police comms, they must take responsibility for it. When the police can hide their actions from the publics ears, then we are in a POLICE STATE
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Post by Gargamel37 on Feb 8, 2007 7:40:24 GMT -5
Well, I disagree with you NewsNick. You want info, watch the news.
I'm an avid scanner listener but like I said, most people do it for 1 thing - a hobby aka buffing. Call it what you will.
Other people use it for aiding in a crime, or sightseeing - which gets people caught up in dangerous situations (the media is famous for this)
The police/law enforcement agencies don't owe you anthing except to provide you with public safety. They don't owe you the right to listen in on police matters, investigations or law enforcement sensative issues.
I'm glad that nobody can hear our radio system.
You want to hear what the police are talking about on the radios, become a cop. ;D
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Post by newsnick175 on Feb 8, 2007 8:37:35 GMT -5
Not if it means being a Gestapo like you! So is it that we shouldn't know how you do things just let you "take care of it". Pardon me if that sends shivers up my spine.
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Post by ladder3 on Feb 8, 2007 12:06:58 GMT -5
If this does go that way to a encrypted system at the least they should give a radio to each fire dept for use in the dispatchers booth only to moniter whats going on. Having the ability to listen to the police dispatcher put out a fire/rescue/mva call before you get the call for it helps alot in getting the FD onscene quicker and the members responding can get info alot quicker than having everything relayed PD-CB-Firecom-FD Disp
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Post by Gargamel37 on Feb 8, 2007 15:46:13 GMT -5
Not if it means being a Gestapo like you! So is it that we shouldn't know how you do things just let you "take care of it". Pardon me if that sends shivers up my spine. From the tone of your postings, I didn't think you had much of a spine at all... Buts that's neither here or there. You sound like the same guy who cries over the mistreatment of the terrorist prisioners held in Guantánamo Bay. Those who can, do. Those who can't, report it. YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!
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Post by LIFireEMS on Feb 8, 2007 18:44:15 GMT -5
Newsnick, you sound like a younger member. Ill let you in on a few things. there is NO reason a civilian needs to know what narcotics is doing, or SWAT. It isnt your right. there is a danger in the average person knowing what these tactics teams are doing. Hense, why Mobile Scanners are illegal in most states. Some of the true buffs here will remember the days when the first cordless telephones came out, to tap into them, you plugged 46.05-46.95mHz into your scanner and could listen in on anyone in the neighborhood. Is that right or fair? Now the phones are all 900mHz and higher, as high as 2.2gHz. If you dont need to know, the govt will make sure you dont know it. And thats the way it is. But when you start crying on here, i have no choice but to consider your age to be limited in years. Just relax, FD will not be going encrypted anytime soon.
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Post by Ex-Capt371 on Feb 8, 2007 18:55:56 GMT -5
Allow me to quote an earlier post of our resident card-carrying member of the ACLU (newsnick)
"The real hang-up about this is there is no problem with standing on any corner with a scanner in your hand, listening to the cops, only when you step into a car, then you are in violation. You've commited no crime, but your gulity anyway. [glow=red,2,300]In this day and age it would be no effort to have accomplises monitor the cops and "nextel' you in your car with the information needed to comit a crime undetected.[/glow] Having a phone in a car is not a violation. The VTL should be amended to 'while in the commission of a crime' Nick "
Anything wrong with this>?
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Post by volffemt on Feb 8, 2007 22:49:52 GMT -5
I have to back up Gargamel's point of view on this topic.
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Post by bfd732 on Feb 9, 2007 9:17:23 GMT -5
Newsnick if you can listen to all official radio traffic do you REALLY think they're not listening to your thoughts? This link is for you - zapatopi.net/afdb/
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Post by newsnick175 on Feb 9, 2007 9:24:57 GMT -5
I have a feeling that many of the previous posters were asleep when the subject of the Constitution and Bill of Rights was taught in school. If you went to school at all. Its the rights of the people that come first, not the police. The chance that anyone could elude the police for very long after committing a crime and using a scanner to help avoid capture is nil. There may have been many attempts, but none successful. Try to understand this guys, there is no reason to go to the expense and trouble to encrypt DAY to DAY comms. There is nothing of a sensitive nature in a barking dog complaint or a multi victim MVA. If during an on going investigation involving undercover police at risk of exposer and harm there is a need to communicate over a radio, then encryption is called for. Still the issue is do we, the people of this country, allow anyone to tell us that we don't need to know how our tax paid police operate on a day to day bases. The answer is NO. Don't give me that "love it or leave it" crap. None of you are old enough to remember what we had to do to save this country from the conservative bigots forty years ago.
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Post by volffemt on Feb 9, 2007 12:31:49 GMT -5
Newsnick writes, "The chance that anyone could elude the police for very long after committing a crime and using a scanner to help avoid capture is nil. There may have been many attempts, but none successful"
How can you say this? Have you researched through the millions & millions of crimes committed around the world? I'd say - you havent!
The Constitution & the Bill of Rights were written in a day where you could walk right into the White House and talk to the President, but Nick... times are A changin.
I will say this though, you seem to know ALOT about NOTHING.
I love to listen to the scanner, but I still support Gargamel's view.
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Post by LIFireEMS on Feb 9, 2007 12:33:10 GMT -5
But that is not what you said. You said that all communications must be revealed to you. And that is not true. And if YOU were paying attention in grammar school, you would know that the constitution and bill of rights stands as long as there is no clear and present danger. And allowing the average Joe listen to sensitive radio comms is in fact a clear and present danger. You cant shout Fire in a theater because of it.
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Post by bloomtruck42 on Feb 9, 2007 12:59:20 GMT -5
it wouldn't be much of an 'expense' or 'trouble' for them, just for us
i don't mind if they go twoards encription. Yes our tax money pays their services and yes they are there to work for us... but i'm pretty sure they have a good idea on what they are doing. plus the day to day operations may not seem that big of a deal to us, but i'm sure a terrorist would love to know the day to day and how they respond to what kind of calls. may be a bit of an extreme example but there really is no gain for civilians to be listening to police ops (or atleast i dont see it).
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Post by bfd732 on Feb 9, 2007 13:00:30 GMT -5
I have a feeling that many of the previous posters were asleep when the subject of the Constitution and Bill of Rights was taught in school. If you went to school at all. Its the rights of the people that come first, not the police. The chance that anyone could elude the police for very long after committing a crime and using a scanner to help avoid capture is nil. There may have been many attempts, but none successful. Try to understand this guys, there is no reason to go to the expense and trouble to encrypt DAY to DAY comms. There is nothing of a sensitive nature in a barking dog complaint or a multi victim MVA. If during an on going investigation involving undercover police at risk of exposer and harm there is a need to communicate over a radio, then encryption is called for. Still the issue is do we, the people of this country, allow anyone to tell us that we don't need to know how our tax paid police operate on a day to day bases. The answer is NO. Don't give me that "love it or leave it" crap. None of you are old enough to remember what we had to do to save this country from the conservative bigots forty years ago.
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Post by volffemt on Feb 9, 2007 13:00:48 GMT -5
Maybe Nick should write to the President asking to see all the launch codes for the nukes, ask for the identities of all the CIA operatives.... After all, he as the public - has the right to know!
Point being, if NCPD or anyone goes encrypted - you're s@#t out of luck Nick! But write a letter to the police commissioner & chief, I'm sure they will do everything in their power to accomodate your requests.
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Post by bfd732 on Feb 9, 2007 13:03:59 GMT -5
I have a feeling that many of the previous posters were asleep when the subject of the Constitution and Bill of Rights was taught in school. If you went to school at all. Its the rights of the people that come first, not the police. The chance that anyone could elude the police for very long after committing a crime and using a scanner to help avoid capture is nil. There may have been many attempts, but none successful. Try to understand this guys, there is no reason to go to the expense and trouble to encrypt DAY to DAY comms. There is nothing of a sensitive nature in a barking dog complaint or a multi victim MVA. If during an on going investigation involving undercover police at risk of exposer and harm there is a need to communicate over a radio, then encryption is called for. Still the issue is do we, the people of this country, allow anyone to tell us that we don't need to know how our tax paid police operate on a day to day bases. The answer is NO. Don't give me that "love it or leave it" crap. None of you are old enough to remember what we had to do to save this country from the conservative bigots forty years ago.
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Post by bfd732 on Feb 9, 2007 15:53:22 GMT -5
Sorry I had to repost it and read at least two times to believe it. To each their own, but I gladly will allow police to tap my phones and I will allow them whatever level of privacy they need to keep me safe, I am not convinced they or the federal governent are interested in or capable of conspiracy against me. I'm much more afraid of the criminals doing me harm. But that's just me I'm kinda quirky like that.
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Post by ESU2422 on Feb 10, 2007 0:15:01 GMT -5
Newsnick, here is a late news flash. The county has abandoned the new radio plan, we're going back to the way it was done in the early years of the NCPD. There will be a green light atop the telephone poles that NCPD callboxes are located on. When the light is on the RMP operator will call the stationhouse from the callbox for his assignment. Good luck trying to listen in.
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Post by newsnick175 on Feb 10, 2007 11:49:04 GMT -5
Well now that I've brought out all the right wing civil and equal rights bashers, I can say that you all need a little reading comprehension refresher. I'm talking about not encrypting DAY to DAY police comms to keep them responsible for their actions. Gargamel prides himself with the knowledge that he and his colleagues can talk to each other without fear of responsibility for their words. Oh, and how many times has anyone heard of unsolved crimes where the cops suspect the use of scanners to make a getaway? I bet everyone can remember a case of cops shooting first and asking questions later. [ That wallet in his hand looked like a gun!] LIFireEms would like Marshall Law declared every time the police felt it was hard to track down a litter bug! Sure tap my phone who cares! Certainly not bfd732. Well I'm very glad you guys don't have anything to say when it comes to Justice and freedom. You all would like to see the Patriot Act expanded to include Federal ID and travel documents to cross state lines. Don't worry the police and the feds know whats best for you. It's nothing personal. Remember, all law enforcement are our servants and not the other way around. The encryption of DAY to DAY police comms is wrong! Despite what Bush says, there aren't bomb throwing terrorists lurking around every coroner with a scanner in there hands. He was wrong about WMDs in Iraq. Oh, and yes to ladder3 for his point about one need to monitor the cops.
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Post by volffemt on Feb 10, 2007 12:28:23 GMT -5
You know what Nick - You're right... I'm done with this topic & this gooch!
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Post by LIFireEMS on Feb 10, 2007 12:55:53 GMT -5
You really are too funny. Justus? What is that. Never heard it before. Perhaps you meant Justice. Both sides have spoken on this issue, and thats that. Newsnick feels he should be able to hear everything that is said, and that is respectable, but others rely on secure communications to protect themselves and the public.
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Post by newsnick175 on Feb 10, 2007 15:17:09 GMT -5
Thanks, the spell check missed that one. Everyone has a right to their opinion, only the future will tell.
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Post by bloomtruck42 on Feb 10, 2007 15:23:56 GMT -5
and remember-- big brother is always watching....
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Post by ESU2422 on Feb 11, 2007 1:38:46 GMT -5
Oh, and how many times has anyone heard of unsolved crimes where the cops suspect the use of scanners to make a getaway? . I guess you haven't been listening to the scanner that long, but there was a group of smash and grab burglars known as the "Telliers" They were very well known for using the scanners to know where the cops were and when they would be responding . The Telliers were known for smashing through the walls or fronts of stores, in particular jewelry stores. They would use a high performance car to engage the responding cars in a chase to draw attention from the van loaded with furs. And every one of them had a scanner. And they had radios to talk back and forth to eachother as well. Within the past 3 years we had a group of rooftop burglars who used a guy in a car monitoring the police who would then use a FRS radio to let the guys breaking in know the cops were responding. Calls for certain locations were being given out by phone or MDT when this was going on. So to sit behind your keyboard and say it doesn't happen , well let's say you're not as informed as you might think you are. If you want to monitor the cops, go right ahead, I'll admit it can be fascinating listening but the bottom line is this, if there is something I don't want you to hear, you'll never hear it broadcasted over the radio, encrypted or not.
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